Measuring Marketing Success with Marketo: Michael Hartman’s Attribution Insights

Q: What is your perspective on B2B attribution modeling, and where do you think it is most effective?

Michael Hartmann: I have a mixed view on B2B attribution modeling. While it can be valuable, I think it’s often misapplied and used with the wrong audience. The challenge is that even the simplest models involve complex math, which can be difficult for people outside of marketing—especially in sales and finance—to grasp. If you try to use attribution to communicate marketing’s impact to those outside your department, you’re running uphill.

Attribution modeling is most effective when used within the marketing team. It helps you understand which tactics, channels, and audiences to invest in. However, when it comes to communicating with executives and sales, attribution modeling often falls short.

They may nod along but don’t necessarily believe that it tells a comprehensive story about marketing’s true impact on the business.

Q: How can marketers better communicate their value to sales and executives?

Michael Hartmann: I’m a big advocate of a narrative approach. Storytelling is powerful because it resonates with people and provides tangible examples of how marketing contributes to business outcomes. For instance, I found success by working with my team to create one-page summaries of key deals.

We outlined how the lead originated, the marketing efforts involved, how quickly we followed up, and how we got the lead to the right sales team. This storytelling taps into our natural affinity for narratives and makes the impact of marketing more relatable.

So, rather than bombarding them with metrics like email opens or website visits, you should highlight how specific marketing activities contributed to successful outcomes. It’s not just about taking credit; it’s about showing how you can win as a team.

Q: There is a view that relying too much on attribution modeling can stifle innovation in marketing. Do you agree?

Michael Hartmann: Yes, I tend to agree with that view. An overemphasis on attribution modeling can indeed limit creativity and focus you on short-term returns, rather than long-term brand building, which is crucial for a sustainable marketing funnel. For example, I know a CMO who sets aside about 15-20% of her budget purely for experimenting with new tactics, even if they aren’t immediately measurable.

This is an important practice because part of marketing is trying new things that might not yield short-term, quantifiable results.

If you solely rely on attribution and metrics, you risk prioritizing only what is easily measurable and potentially missing out on innovative approaches that could drive long-term success.

Q: You’ve mentioned that there is a gap between marketing and other departments, like sales and finance. How can marketers bridge this gap?

Michael Hartmann: The misalignment often comes from using the wrong metrics with the wrong audience. Marketers tend to share tactical-level metrics, such as click-through rates or website visits, with sales teams and executives. These metrics might be critical for optimizing campaigns internally, but they don’t resonate with non-marketing audiences.

To bridge this gap, you need to present metrics that align with their interests. For sales, focus on metrics related to lead quality and pipeline velocity. For executives, highlight how marketing efforts contribute to revenue and business growth.

However, even when discussing these metrics, it’s important to wrap them in a narrative that illustrates the customer journey and marketing’s role. This makes it easier for non-marketers to see how your work impacts overall business success.

Q: What metrics should marketers focus on for a holistic view of their performance?

Michael Hartmann: I use a framework that looks at five perspectives: operational metrics, tactical performance, campaign insights, revenue contribution, and narrative storytelling.

• • Operational Metrics focus on data quality and consistency. These are primarily for marketing operations to ensure accurate targeting and reliable reporting. Poor data can affect everything downstream, so it’s critical to get this right.
• • Tactical Performance includes metrics like click-through rates and conversions. These are vital for internal use to optimize specific campaigns, but they aren’t necessarily useful for communicating with sales or executives.
• • Campaign-Level Insights provide a multi-channel view, showing how campaigns resonate with different audiences. While these can be summarized for other departments, it’s more effective to use them to tell a broader story about the customer journey.
• • Revenue Contribution is perhaps the most critical for bridging the gap with sales and executives. There are two main approaches: attribution modeling and contribution modeling. While I find contribution modeling more holistic, it requires upfront agreement on how each team’s impact is measured to avoid arguments later.
• • Narrative Storytelling is where you bring it all together. By providing real-life examples of key wins, you show how marketing activities contribute to success in a way that resonates with non-marketing stakeholders.

Q: Could you elaborate on how contribution modeling differs from attribution modeling and why you prefer it?

Michael Hartmann: Attribution modeling assigns value to specific marketing touchpoints in a customer journey, which can be complex and often leads to skepticism when presented to non-marketing teams. Contribution modeling, on the other hand, takes a more holistic view of how marketing, sales, and customer success collectively drive revenue.
The key to contribution modeling is having an upfront agreement on how you will measure each team’s impact.

That way, when you discuss pipeline revenue, you’re not arguing about the numbers but focusing on how to drive growth. I prefer this approach because it facilitates collaboration and aligns all departments on a shared goal.

Q: What role does data quality play in marketing measurement?

Michael Hartmann: Data quality is foundational to everything else in marketing measurement. It impacts your ability to target accurately, segment your audience, and trust the lists you build. Unfortunately, operational metrics related to data quality are often overlooked because their impact is not immediately visible.

However, poor data quality can lead to errors in segmentation and inaccuracies in reporting, which can undermine marketing’s credibility.

Focusing on operational metrics ensures that your data is consistent and reliable, setting the stage for all other aspects of marketing measurement, from tactical performance to revenue attribution.

Q: With all these perspectives in mind, how should marketers decide where to focus their efforts?

Michael Hartmann: It depends on the company’s growth stage and unique situation. However, in general, I recommend starting with operational metrics to establish a solid data foundation and exploring narrative storytelling early on.

Storytelling doesn’t require a large investment but can quickly build understanding and support within the organization. Most companies already focus on tactical and campaign-level metrics to some degree, so it’s more about refining those and setting clear goals.

For revenue contribution, it’s essential to gain upfront agreement on how to measure contributions across teams. This allows you to align your efforts strategically and avoid getting bogged down in debates over metrics.

Q: What is your one piece of advice for marketers struggling to communicate their impact?

Michael Hartmann: Focus on storytelling. Data and metrics are important, but if you want to resonate with sales and executives, you need to tell compelling stories that highlight marketing’s role in successful outcomes.

It’s not about showing off numbers; it’s about connecting the dots between marketing activities and business success in a way that everyone can understand.